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Post by davidkipps on Jan 20, 2023 10:55:24 GMT -5
Benton citrange fruit is far more acceptable to taste than Troyer or Carrizo. I grew some Citrangequat seedlings, that fruited. Some were markedly better than the parent fruit. Plants were not strikingly different to the original parent, there are slight differences, but minor. Were your Citrangequat seedlings from "Thomasville"? I have wondered if it could produce zygotic seeds, as you apparently got.
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till
Full Member
Posts: 160
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Post by till on Jan 21, 2023 5:14:10 GMT -5
Pagnr, is Benton citrange then sweeter?
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Post by pagnr on Jan 21, 2023 6:24:43 GMT -5
Were your Citrangequat seedlings from "Thomasville"? I have wondered if it could produce zygotic seeds, as you apparently got.
I always thought it was Thomasville from the true description. I got it as a ''Limequat" in Australia ( incorrectly sold )
Pagnr, is Benton citrange then sweeter?
I thought it was more mandarin like in flavour without the unusual scent / flavour of Troyer etc. I would say yes, but hard to say if it is sweeter or less overpowered by bad tasting flavours ? I found it much more acceptable than other Citranges. Possibly a better candidate for you, along with some of the newer types of Citrange. On the other hand I have eaten a lot of wild Australian fruit with unusual or strong flavours that other people didn't like.
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Post by mikkel on Jan 21, 2023 8:31:01 GMT -5
I found a Benton in my collection Maybe I will give it a try.
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Post by mikkel on May 2, 2023 6:08:08 GMT -5
In the past Bernhardt Voss succeeded to produce several ChandlerXPT hybrid seedlings. Chandler x tri (which is more likely a Chandler x Citrange) fruited for the first time last year. According to Bernhard Voss, it is very sweet, has no poncirus flavors and is only slightly sour.
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Post by tedburn on May 6, 2023 15:20:32 GMT -5
That sounds interesting, did he tell something about the frost hardiness ?
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Post by mikkel on May 7, 2023 1:24:01 GMT -5
His plant is in a greenhouse. So it remains a surprise bag...
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Post by mikkel on Nov 27, 2023 16:50:15 GMT -5
SP Urban (Ichangensis x Acidless Rangpur) did not work and the result is sour taste, but maybe it is possible to found acidless F2 seedling, SP Urban also may have a short juvenile period, one seedling flowered after 4 years. Last year I got Tahizu, it is also C. ichangensis x C. limonia var. otaitense I suspect hybrid seedlings of both can be acidless and some even precocious flowering .
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Post by radoslav on Nov 28, 2023 8:26:45 GMT -5
In the past Bernhardt Voss succeeded to produce several ChandlerXPT hybrid seedlings. Looks like gene for trifoliate leaf is hidden in the the citrus genetic, years ago I sow seeds from Jaffa red pomelo and they created one or two trifoliate leaf once. Last year triploid hybrid Early Sicily formed three trifoliate leaves high on the crown. So maybe poncirus and citrus are closer than we think.
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Post by mikkel on Dec 5, 2023 8:35:38 GMT -5
A few days ago I became aware of the Cocktail Pomelo / Mandelo. Mandelo is a 50% Siamese Sweet hybrid. With almost acid-free fruits. This makes it interesting for breeding again. Mike Saalfeld / Citrange then drew my attention to his website, where he describes a seedling of Mandelo. This seedling has acidic fruits.
It is perhaps worth bearing in mind that acidic fruits can appear again in the F2. Simplified, one can then assume that the acid-free gene is a dominant gene. F1 hybrids with Siamese Sweet are then, as expected, always acid-free, as they are at least heterozygous for the dominant acid-free gene. The F2 is then only 25% acid-free. This is a technically simplified train of thought, whether it is consistent with the genetic studies in this topic where a multigenic inheritance pattern is assumed. This requires further consideration.
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jibro
Full Member
Czech Rep. | USDA 6b
Posts: 163
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Post by jibro on Jan 9, 2024 15:37:27 GMT -5
Some old study where was Siamese Sweet 2240 tested... Contrasting effects of acid and nonacid pummelos on the acidity of hybrid citrus progenies Another study about origin of Chandler CHANDLER—AN EARLY-RIPENING HYBRID PUMMELO DERIVED FROM A LOW-ACID PARENT
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Post by ilya11 on Jan 11, 2024 4:01:45 GMT -5
Thank you
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jibro
Full Member
Czech Rep. | USDA 6b
Posts: 163
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Post by jibro on Jan 18, 2024 2:49:23 GMT -5
Another interesting study: Acidity and Total Soluble Solids in Citrus Hybrids and Advanced Crosses Involving Acidless Orange and Acidless PummeloAbsence of Acidless Progeny from Crosses of Acidless x Acidless Citrus Cultivars
They crossed acidless pummelo x acidless orange, lime, Rangpur and found that only acidless pummelo x acidless orange has hybrids with lowest acidity <1. None of this crosses produce acidless hybrid but they found it in F2 generation. I don't think these crosses with acidless lime, lemon and Rangpur are worth for crosses with poncirus to lower acidity in hybrids, even acidless pomelo x acidless lime or Rangpur had most hybrids with 2 - 4% acidity...
The study provided another evidence that crosses with acidless pomelos are the best option to reduce fruit acidity in hybrids as we already know...
Acidless pummelo x acidless orange had lowest acidity but there is not clear what orange variety was used, interesting information for me is that acidless orange ‘Sukkari’ produce nucellar seedlings which are true to type for low acidity.
I do have Sikkeri from Crete which is most likely the same, so it may be hard to use it as a seed parent but I already have one fruit from Poncirus "Hodonin" x Sikkeri...
I will focus to produce many Chandler x poncirus crosses and also poncirus x Sikkeri, poncirus x Sucrena, even if the chance to get hybrids with low acidity is low..
I found 3 seeds in Sucrena x Ichang papeda Ivia, but they did not germinated, they were maybe not fully developed and kind of soft and did not survived 2 months of storage.
Next time I will pick crosspolinated Sucrena fruit later in Spring and and I'll sow the seeds as soon as possible, even if Sucrena fruits are fully colored in November or December.
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Post by ilya11 on Jan 19, 2024 3:49:23 GMT -5
Still, acidless oranges will probably bring low acidity in F2 populations. In two more recent papers cited above in this topic it is shown that they contain two defect copies of citPH (Noemi) gene that are recessive when present individually. They also demonstrate that there are at least three types of acidless oranges represented by Vaniglia, Lima and Tarocco Ferreri and containing different mutations responsible for low citric acid content.
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jibro
Full Member
Czech Rep. | USDA 6b
Posts: 163
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Post by jibro on Jan 21, 2024 6:47:18 GMT -5
My experience growing Chandler pomelos in central Europe, equivalent to USDA zone 6AChandler grafted on trifoliate grows very vigorously and had the first fruit already the second year after grafting, this year had two fruits. When overwintered in a cool, dark room with temperature close to 0°C sometimes even to -2°C it doesn't drop any leaves and is in good shape after winter. The fruit will only hold from the last open flowers, so all the flowers I have pollinated before have always dropped. Of the 3 fruits in 2 years, I have only found 1 seed after trifoliate pollination, but the seedling has no trifoliate leaves, so I don't know who was the pollen donor. In my greenhouse it flowers in mid May and the fruit starts to colour in November, so far in my case they have always dropped off before full ripening partially yellow, in 2022 in December, this year January 6. The flavour last year was bland, the flesh drier, only very slightly sweet with a slight bitter aftertaste. This year the fruit was bigger 550g and more coloured, juicy, but I left them at room temperature for 10 days, which was a mistake as it increases the bitterness of the pomelo. So the taste was a little sweet, but with a strong bitterness like a not very good grapefruit. I'm now a little concerned that hybrids Chandler x trifoliate when grown in a cool climate, may have a pronounced bitterness like other citrumelos...
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