jibro
Full Member
Czech Rep. | USDA 6b
Posts: 121
|
Post by jibro on Dec 4, 2021 7:44:33 GMT -5
This variety was imported to Czech rep. from former Soviet Union before 1989. There is no report of any trifoliate influence on this variety, no trifoliate leaves or aftertase in fruits. I purchased small plant grafted on citrumelo Swingle from Adavo in summer 2019, plant started flowering in Spring 2020 but all fruitlets dropped and so far i get only one fruit from flowering in August 2020. After 1 year and 4 months fully ripen fruit dropped from tree, taste is good, sweet Brix 13°, no trifoliate influence in taste, it has small navel, size 6,7 x 7 cm, weight 169 g (5.96 ounces), seedless.
I think it has non-viable pollen, so it will be impossible to use it for breeding purpose because Washington Navel has seedless fruits due to pollen sterility and ovule sterility. I am not sure if it is true that this orange is more cold hardy than other orange variety, I may try it but I do not believe there is any genes from trifoliate, it most likely originated as a limb sport...
|
|
|
|
Post by ilya11 on Dec 4, 2021 16:04:34 GMT -5
I agree that this plant is not a chimera, either it was mislabeled or lost the cells of poncirus. But I noted also that its skin does has a rather strange smell. Its high graft on poncirus grown in situ survived already 4 seasons without any protection. Below is its fruit harvested last year at the end November. |
|
jibro
Full Member
Czech Rep. | USDA 6b
Posts: 121
|
Post by jibro on Dec 5, 2021 3:24:27 GMT -5
It would be nice to have the original russian description from the article, but in Czech literature is most likely translated the same description from professor Mamporia:
DeepL Translator Czech to English
Despite this description there is no report from Czech growers that will confirm the trifoliate apperance, Slava Micurina from Adavo looks and taste like pure Navel Orange. It will be interesting to graft Washington Navel, Slava Micurina and some Satsuma to one rootstock to determine what variety is more cold hardy.
I also forget that these citrange originated from Washington Navel x Trifoliate cross, so maybe it is not impossible to use Slava Micurina as a seed parent...
|
|
|
|
Post by ilya11 on Dec 5, 2021 3:56:34 GMT -5
Occasionally there are few seeds in this variety. Also, my original plant ( from Z.Cernoch) has rather large fruits.
|
|
|
|
Post by radoslav on Jan 5, 2022 8:53:52 GMT -5
Филип Дмитриевич Мампория  Professor Philip Dmitrievich Mamporia (*25. 10.1904) author of method to create new cultivars by forced formation of chimeras, so called vegetative hybridisation. Author of Dioscuria lemon hybrid (lemon Gruzinskij x poncirus). Book:Лимон Диоскурия (Ф. Д. Мампория, Н. И. Каркашадзе, Ш. М. Сургуладзе) Сухуми Алашара 1983 |
|
|
|
Post by Sylvain on Jan 6, 2022 10:47:28 GMT -5
I agree with you both, this is not a chimera.
|
|
|
|
Post by citrange on Jan 6, 2022 14:03:50 GMT -5
Sylvain - did your experiment grafting several long strips of bark ever produce any interesting shoots??
|
|
|
|
Post by Sylvain on Jan 7, 2022 9:59:47 GMT -5
I stopped the project because I had a problem of "grafting". The bark thickness are too much different between the "budwoods", less than a milimetre and the rootstocks, more than 2 mm. The rootstocks are more than 3 meters high PTs.
The result is that the strips dried leaving few pieces that welded.
This year I intend to try with budwoods and rootstocks of the same age.
But it is not easy. I shall try to graft on young PTs. Cutting 2mm strips on a small tree is not easy, maybe two opposite strips...
|
|
|
|
Post by ilya11 on Jan 7, 2022 12:38:35 GMT -5
Mamporia also made chimeras by approach grafting between twigs of different varieties.
|
|
|
|
Post by Sylvain on Jan 8, 2022 6:27:01 GMT -5
It seems interesting, but you need to make the longest graft you can.
|
|
|
|
Post by ilya11 on Jan 8, 2022 17:23:45 GMT -5
|
|
pissp
New Member
Posts: 17
|
Post by pissp on Jan 10, 2022 10:08:15 GMT -5
Awesome links, Ilya - thanks for sharing. Do you have any more of Dr. Mamporia's references or can you direct me to where I might find them?
|
|
|
|
Post by radoslav on Jan 10, 2022 13:07:40 GMT -5
|
|
pissp
New Member
Posts: 17
|
Post by pissp on Jan 10, 2022 14:28:25 GMT -5
Thank You! Using an online OCR and translator...how far off is this:
МАМПОРИЯ, Филипп
(1952) — в Грузинском с.-х.
тативных гибридов их.
Дмитриевич
(род. Чхорошку Зугдидского у. Кутаис-
ской губ. 25.Х.1904) — селекционер ра-
стений. Окончил (1932) Всесоюзный ин-т
субтропических культур. Кандидат биоло-
гических наук; диссертация на тему «Цито-
эмбриологическое исследование Ропсги$ -
"/оПа1а» защищена в 1938. Доцент. Ра-
ботал: 1932—1935 — преподавателем с.-х.
техникума; с 1935 по настоящее время
ин-те им.
MAMPORIA, Philip
(1952) - in the Georgian agricultural.
their native hybrids.
Dmitrievich
(genus Chkhoroshku Zugdidi u. Kutais-
lip. 25.X.1904) - breeder of the
stheny. Graduated from (1932) All-Union Institute
subtropical crops. Biological candidate
geological sciences; dissertation on the topic "Cyto-
embryological research Ropsgi $ -
"??" defended in 1938. Associate Professor.
botal: 1932-1935 - teacher of agricultural.
technical school; from 1935 to the present
in-those them.
Берия (1935—1938 — асгирант;
1938—1941 — ассистент кафедры селек-
ции и семеноводства; с 194/ — доцент
той же кафедры). По совместительству,
с 1948 по настоящее время (1952) — заме-
ститель директора научной части Всесоюз-—
ной селекционной станции влажно-субтро-
пических культур. Занимался в
ной. гибридизацией томатов (193;
и померанцевых (с 1947); вывел ряд веге-
егетатив-
9—1947)
Beria (1935-1938 - asgirant;
1938-1941 - assistant of the department of selection
tion and seed production; from 194 / - associate professor
the same department). Concurrently,
from 1948 to the present (1952) - replacement
assistant director of the scientific department of the All-Union--
noisy selection station wet-subtro-
peak crops. I was engaged in
Noah. hybridization of tomatoes (193;
and orange (from 1947); brought out a number of vege-
vegetative
9-1947)
Список работ
1. Ликвидация альбинизма под влия-
нех прививки. Яровизация, 1, М., 1941,
етр.. 12.
2. Прирожденный альбинизм у расте-
ний. Тр. Груз. с.-х, ин-та им. Берия, ХХ,
Тбилиси, 1943, стр. 33.
3. Цито-эмбриологическое неследование
Ропсгиз иЦоНаца. Тр. Груз. с.-х. ин-та
им. Берия, ХХ, Тбилиси, 1943, стр. 39.
'Вегетативно-гибридная изменчивость
4. наследственность Тр. рух седина
им. Берия, ХХИГ-ХХИУ, Тбилиси,
1945, стр. 61.
5. Вегетативная гибридизация как ме-
тод получения исходного материала для
селекции, Тр. Груз, ох. ина им. Берия,
ХХУ, Тбилиси, 1946, стр.
6. Размножение цитрусовых растений
и массовый отбор. Госиэлат Груз. ССР,
Тбилиси, 1949 [на груз. яз.].
7. Теоретические основы селекции и
семеноводства, Госиздат Груз. ССР, Тби-
лиси, 1949, 351 стр. [на груз. яз. |.
8. Продольная прививка как метод
усиления морозоустойчивости и перелелки
природы организма, Ил. Абгиза, Сухуми,
1950, 17 стр., илл.
9. Особенности воспроизведения, роста,
развития и формообразования цитрусовых и
нек-рых других померанцевых. Госиздат Груз.
*ССР, Тбилиси, 1951, 324 стр., 129 рис., 21
д. табл
List of works
1. Elimination of albinism under the influence
neh vaccinations. Yarovization, 1, M., 1941,
etr .. 12.
2. Congenital albinism in plants
niy. Tr. Cargo. s.-x, in-ta them. Beria, XX,
Tbilisi, 1943, p. 33.
3. Cyto-embryological non-investigation
Ropsgiz ITsoNatsa. Tr. Cargo. s.-kh. in-that
them. Beria, XX, Tbilisi, 1943, p. 39.
'' Vegetative-hybrid variability
4. heredity Tr. ruk of gray hair
them. Beria, HHIG-HHIU, Tbilisi,
1945, p. 61.
5. Vegetative hybridization as a method
method of obtaining source material for
selection, Tr. Cargo, oh. ina im. Beria,
XXY, Tbilisi, 1946, p.
6. Reproduction of citrus plants
and mass selection. Gosielat Cargo. SSR,
Tbilisi, 1949 [to load. language].
7. Theoretical foundations of breeding and
seed production, Gosizdat Cargo. SSR, Tbi-
fox, 1949, 351 pages [on load. lang. |.
8. Longitudinal grafting as a method
strengthening frost resistance and reclaiming
the nature of the organism, Il. Abgiz, Sukhumi,
1950, 17 pages, ill.
9. Features of reproduction, growth,
development and shaping of citrus fruits and
some other orange ones. Gosizdat Cargo.* SSR, Tbilisi, 1951, 324 pages, 129 figures, 21
d. table
|
|
|
|
Post by ilya11 on Jan 10, 2022 17:26:16 GMT -5
Thank You! Using an online OCR and translator...how far off is this: МАМПОРИЯ, Филипп (1952) — в Грузинском с.-х. тативных гибридов их. Дмитриевич (род. Чхорошку Зугдидского у. Кутаис- ской губ. 25.Х.1904) — селекционер ра- стений. Окончил (1932) Всесоюзный ин-т субтропических культур. Кандидат биоло- гических наук; диссертация на тему «Цито- эмбриологическое исследование Ропсги$ - "/оПа1а» защищена в 1938. Доцент. Ра- ботал: 1932—1935 — преподавателем с.-х. техникума; с 1935 по настоящее время ин-те им. MAMPORIA, Philip
(1952) - in the Georgian agricultural.
their native hybrids.
Dmitrievich
(genus Chkhoroshku Zugdidi u. Kutais-
lip. 25.X.1904) - breeder of the
stheny. Graduated from (1932) All-Union Institute
subtropical crops. Biological candidate
geological sciences; dissertation on the topic "Cyto-
embryological research Ropsgi $ -
"??" defended in 1938. Associate Professor.
botal: 1932-1935 - teacher of agricultural.
technical school; from 1935 to the present
in-those them.Берия (1935—1938 — асгирант; 1938—1941 — ассистент кафедры селек- ции и семеноводства; с 194/ — доцент той же кафедры). По совместительству, с 1948 по настоящее время (1952) — заме- ститель директора научной части Всесоюз-— ной селекционной станции влажно-субтро- пических культур. Занимался в ной. гибридизацией томатов (193; и померанцевых (с 1947); вывел ряд веге- егетатив- 9—1947) Beria (1935-1938 - asgirant;
1938-1941 - assistant of the department of selection
tion and seed production; from 194 / - associate professor
the same department). Concurrently,
from 1948 to the present (1952) - replacement
assistant director of the scientific department of the All-Union--
noisy selection station wet-subtro-
peak crops. I was engaged in
Noah. hybridization of tomatoes (193;
and orange (from 1947); brought out a number of vege-
vegetative
9-1947)
Список работ 1. Ликвидация альбинизма под влия- нех прививки. Яровизация, 1, М., 1941, етр.. 12. 2. Прирожденный альбинизм у расте- ний. Тр. Груз. с.-х, ин-та им. Берия, ХХ, Тбилиси, 1943, стр. 33. 3. Цито-эмбриологическое неследование Ропсгиз иЦоНаца. Тр. Груз. с.-х. ин-та им. Берия, ХХ, Тбилиси, 1943, стр. 39. 'Вегетативно-гибридная изменчивость 4. наследственность Тр. рух седина им. Берия, ХХИГ-ХХИУ, Тбилиси, 1945, стр. 61. 5. Вегетативная гибридизация как ме- тод получения исходного материала для селекции, Тр. Груз, ох. ина им. Берия, ХХУ, Тбилиси, 1946, стр. 6. Размножение цитрусовых растений и массовый отбор. Госиэлат Груз. ССР, Тбилиси, 1949 [на груз. яз.]. 7. Теоретические основы селекции и семеноводства, Госиздат Груз. ССР, Тби- лиси, 1949, 351 стр. [на груз. яз. |. 8. Продольная прививка как метод усиления морозоустойчивости и перелелки природы организма, Ил. Абгиза, Сухуми, 1950, 17 стр., илл. 9. Особенности воспроизведения, роста, развития и формообразования цитрусовых и нек-рых других померанцевых. Госиздат Груз. *ССР, Тбилиси, 1951, 324 стр., 129 рис., 21 д. табл List of works
1. Elimination of albinism under the influence
neh vaccinations. Yarovization, 1, M., 1941,
etr .. 12.
2. Congenital albinism in plants
niy. Tr. Cargo. s.-x, in-ta them. Beria, XX,
Tbilisi, 1943, p. 33.
3. Cyto-embryological non-investigation
Ropsgiz ITsoNatsa. Tr. Cargo. s.-kh. in-that
them. Beria, XX, Tbilisi, 1943, p. 39.
'' Vegetative-hybrid variability
4. heredity Tr. ruk of gray hair
them. Beria, HHIG-HHIU, Tbilisi,
1945, p. 61.
5. Vegetative hybridization as a method
method of obtaining source material for
selection, Tr. Cargo, oh. ina im. Beria,
XXY, Tbilisi, 1946, p.
6. Reproduction of citrus plants
and mass selection. Gosielat Cargo. SSR,
Tbilisi, 1949 [to load. language].
7. Theoretical foundations of breeding and
seed production, Gosizdat Cargo. SSR, Tbi-
fox, 1949, 351 pages [on load. lang. |.
8. Longitudinal grafting as a method
strengthening frost resistance and reclaiming
the nature of the organism, Il. Abgiz, Sukhumi,
1950, 17 pages, ill.
9. Features of reproduction, growth,
development and shaping of citrus fruits and
some other orange ones. Gosizdat Cargo.* SSR, Tbilisi, 1951, 324 pages, 129 figures, 21
d. table  |
|
