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Post by Sylvain on May 12, 2020 5:48:34 GMT -5
Finally, a Prague chimera on its own roots:  None of my cuttings took. This one has been obtained by air layering. Growing root cuttings. By the way, we said many wrong things like thorns come from L1. For citrus, thorns are branches using the three layers. From time to time we see sprouting or growing thorns. Then there is no reason to think the layers are PMP, they are MMP. We also spoke of the roots structure thinking of what is known about the roots coming from a seed but in rooting or air layering the roots come from a callus. And as said Ilya, the structure of the root has no reason to follow the rules of a germinating seed.
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Post by ilya11 on May 12, 2020 8:51:50 GMT -5
Congratulations, now we'll see if it is possible to make root cuttings of this plant.
I actually still waiting (for two years now) for new adventive buds on completely debudded Prague. Also has been trying to root its leaf cuttings. |
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Post by Sylvain on May 12, 2020 11:52:26 GMT -5
I actually still waiting (for two years now) for new adventive buds on completely debudded Prague. Also has been trying to root its leaf cuttings. You don't choose the easy ways!  |
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Post by Sylvain on May 12, 2020 17:34:06 GMT -5
Everything about this cultivar is completely odd!
On the trifoliate branches the fruits look like poncirus fruits (velvet rind like Roberto's) and it makes sens: The poncirus took over (PPP). But on one trifoliate branch the fruits are like this:
Glabrous and shiny! What layers patern could do that? MPP?
The size of all these fruits is more than a centimeter, like the PT fruits. All mandarin fruits are half that size.
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Post by ilya11 on May 13, 2020 3:10:35 GMT -5
Everything about this cultivar is completely odd!
On the trifoliate branches the fruits look like poncirus fruits (velvet rind like Roberto's) and it makes sens: The poncirus took over (PPP). But on one trifoliate branch the fruits are like this:
Glabrous and shiny! What layers patern could do that? MPP?
The size of all these fruits is more than a centimeter, like the PT fruits. All mandarin fruits are half that size.
Could be, since exocarp (L1) is of satsuma type, in this case juice taste should also be mandarin like. Fruit shape and size (endocarp and mesocarp) are determined by L2. Segment membranes of these fruits should also have poncirus taste and probably same nasty oils. It could be interesting to see if seeds are giving poncirus seedlings. |
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jibro
Full Member
Czech Rep. | USDA 6b
Posts: 121
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Post by jibro on May 13, 2020 8:48:26 GMT -5
This is really interesting, do you want to try graft budwood from this poncirus branch with mandarin like fruit into poncirus rootstock? If it is stable you may have plant cold hardy as poncirus with mandarine fruits and if this fruits will be also ripen earlier than regular fruit from Prague chimera...
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Post by Sylvain on May 13, 2020 10:22:09 GMT -5
It could be interesting to see if seeds are giving poncirus seedlings. They might do, as seeds are from L2.
That would be very astonishing fruits! PT fruits with shiny skin, mandarin pulp and poncirus seed!!!  |
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Post by poncirusguy on May 13, 2020 12:54:33 GMT -5
What is the difference between a Prague chimera and a prague citsuma.
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Florian
Junior Member
Solothurn, Switzerland
Posts: 80
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Post by Florian on May 13, 2020 13:21:47 GMT -5
What is the difference between a Prague chimera and a prague citsuma. They are the same but Citsuma is not accurate since it suggests it is a cross between Poncirus and Satsuma which it is not. Therefore, it should be called "Prague chimera" or +Citroponcirus "Prague". |
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Post by Sylvain on May 14, 2020 5:15:09 GMT -5
This is really interesting, do you want to try graft budwood from this poncirus branch with mandarin like fruit into poncirus rootstock? If it is stable you may have plant cold hardy as poncirus with mandarine fruits and if this fruits will be also ripen earlier than regular fruit from Prague chimera... I'll do that!
My first intention was to wait for the fruits to mature and then air layer the whole branch, but your way is safer and quicker. Only one air layer took on four attempts!
We cannot expect to have a pure satsuma flesh because the sections membrane will come from L2 (poncirus) as Ilya pointed. But who knows!? We always have been astonished by this plant...
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roberto
Junior Member
Best Regards from Vienna Roberto
Posts: 92
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Post by roberto on May 14, 2020 6:00:45 GMT -5
Sylvain, I never recognized any Poncirus-taste with Prague-fruits. My plant Needs really a lot of nutrition to grow and keep fruits. In fact the inground-tree has never kept one. All fuits I have got came from the potted plant. |
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Post by Sylvain on May 14, 2020 6:26:31 GMT -5
> Sylvain, I never recognized any Poncirus-taste with Prague-fruits.
You are right, but we are talking about this new fruit witch could be MPP when Prague seems to be MMP.
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Post by ilya11 on May 14, 2020 7:57:38 GMT -5
MPP could be more prone to become a pure poncirus PPP, since L2 is more invasive than L1 and L3
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Post by Sylvain on May 14, 2020 15:47:30 GMT -5
In a Prague (MMP) it is very easy to recognize Poncirus (PPP) branches but in a MPP tree it will be harder because they both are trifoliates... I just grafted a scion of the new branch on PT. So,it seems that now we have the MMM, MMP and the MPP patern!!!
There still is a mystery, but it can wait till tomorrow...
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Post by Sylvain on May 15, 2020 4:49:01 GMT -5
As I have more and more Prague trees (this year I grafted two more), I have more fruits and then more seeds. Look what I obtained this year: Two trifoliate seedlings on left and one in the right pot.
And one which didn't choose. 
What could be the explanation(s)?
- Zygotic seedlings from pollinated seeds with PT? But the leaves do not look like F1 leaves but like PT leaves. They could change with age... It could not explain the intermediate leave.
- A change in the layers pattern? It could explain PT leaves (PPP or MPP) and intermediate leave (MMP). But how could it happen knowing that the seeds are supposed to come from L2 (M) which is supposed to give MMM seedlings?!!!
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