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Post by mikkel on Jun 28, 2022 13:06:31 GMT -5
Looks very similar to Poncirus, but came from a Limonia acidissima seed... But it is not a pure Limonia acidissima either, they looked different last time. What doesn't fit to Poncirus are the first 7 monofoliate leaves. Then trifoliate. If it were Limonia, they should be multipinnate... What could this be?
the paired primary leaves also do not fit to Poncirus or a Poncirus hybrid
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pissp
New Member
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Post by pissp on Jun 28, 2022 13:28:00 GMT -5
Can't offer any help but it is interesting to learn that limonia acidissima is graft compatible with citrus - and that it supposedly encourages quick flowering of grafted-on citrus scions. Are you familiar with other non-citrus genus yet graft compatible species? Besides poncirus, of course
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Post by mikkel on Jun 28, 2022 14:18:08 GMT -5
sorry, but i don't have any further experience in this area. I only came across articles by chance that reported that limonia is supposed to cause this bloom induction. I am also not entirely sure whether this also works with immature grafted budwood. But that's exactly what I want to test.
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Post by mikkel on Jun 28, 2022 14:20:58 GMT -5
After a bit of image searching via Google, I am now convinced that it is a Limonia. It looks very different from the last time I grew it. The leaves were already multi-pinnate at this age.... but the trifoliate leaves on seedlings seem to occur frequently...
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kumin
Full Member
SE Pennsylvania, 45 miles north of Chesapeake Bay, Zone 6b
Posts: 113
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Post by kumin on Jun 28, 2022 14:28:11 GMT -5
Are the trifoliate leaves transitional towards later multipinnate leaves? Is the trifoliate state of Poncirus intermediate between the Citrus monofoliate condition and a pinnate ancestor?
Thinking out loud for a moment, with no answers. Intermediate leaf forms may well be extinct.
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pissp
New Member
Posts: 17
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Post by pissp on Jun 28, 2022 15:00:48 GMT -5
After looking at google images, I agree with you that yours does indeed look like l. acidissima. However, check out the UCR catalog for it citrusvariety.ucr.edu/citrus/limonia.htmlSurely its an error, right?
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Post by mikkel on Jun 28, 2022 15:43:07 GMT -5
At least it looks like a dwarfed form of it. The pictures on other sites look different. But I have no personal experience.
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Post by mikkel on Jun 28, 2022 15:48:58 GMT -5
Are the trifoliate leaves transitional towards later multipinnate leaves? Is the trifoliate state of Poncirus intermediate between the Citrus monofoliate condition and a pinnate ancestor? Thinking out loud for a moment, with no answers. Intermediate leaf forms may well be extinct. I suspect it is the other way round, the original leaf shape of the Citrus ancestors will have been pinnate like in Limonia.
Citropsis or Murraja also have pinnate leaves. Poncirus would then rather be an intermediate form with already reduced leaf pairs. And Citrus then the "most modern" leaf shape.
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kumin
Full Member
SE Pennsylvania, 45 miles north of Chesapeake Bay, Zone 6b
Posts: 113
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Post by kumin on Jun 29, 2022 4:11:28 GMT -5
Sorry for lack of clarity. What I should have asked "is the progression of leaf form on this seedling from monofoliate to trifoliate to pinnate?" I would agree that the ancestral leaf form was likely pinnate, then eventually reduced to single leaf, as seen in Citrus.
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Post by mikkel on Jun 29, 2022 16:11:57 GMT -5
"is the progression of leaf form on this seedling from monofoliate to trifoliate to pinnate?" I think so. There are 2 paired primary leaves, followed by 3 monofoliate and at least 2 trifoliate leaves. There should be pinnate leaves following.
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Post by seeschloss on Oct 3, 2022 7:58:21 GMT -5
Has the seedling progressed since then?
I have also received L. acidissima seeds this summer, and they kinda look like this (although they are still small). I have a larger plant that I grew a few years ago, and I don't really remember how long it took but it started with monofoliate leaves before it started making trifoliate and eventually pinnate leaves. I think it took more than 3 leaves for me before it started making trifoliate ones, but it still looks close enough to L. acidissima.
By the way, I ordered L. acidissima from two merchants at the same time, and one packet is turning out to be (likely) Aegle marmelos (which is not a bad surprise, as I've also been trying to grow Aegle marmelos). The seedlings are entirely different though (with buried cotyledons).
I can post photos of my Limonia acidissima seedlings later if you're interested, so we can compare.
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Post by mikkel on Oct 3, 2022 14:37:36 GMT -5
Yes would be interesting to see yours. The plant hasn`t changed since then. It didn`t grow this summer. Not tghe easiest plant to grow. How big is yours at the moment?
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Post by seeschloss on Oct 4, 2022 3:07:45 GMT -5
These two seedlings come from the same seller (a third one is still very small, and the last one to germinate looks like it's not going to go further than getting its cotyledons out): I planted these seeds on the 17th of August and they took two weeks to germinate. And this one is from another seller (only one seed germinated from the whole packet), it is about two weeks older, but it doesn't show: On the two largest plants you can see that the (very small yet) 6th true leaf is trifoliate. They look just like yours. This is my "old" plant from 2017. It was looking rather fine this summer, here's a photo from august: But I left it outside a little too late probably, the temperatures dipped below 15°C or so and it lost leaves again. Oh well, it's already been in a shape worse than that... it's back in the growbox now:
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