aaron
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Post by aaron on Jun 1, 2022 5:53:36 GMT -5
I had an arctic frost satsuma that didn't make it through the winter and the rootstock has started to grow-out. I was expecting the rootstock to be Carrizo or poncirius as these are the most common in Texas. But, the leaves were mono foliate, relatively large with wide winged petioles. I was stumped so I asked on my local(texas) fruit growers forum on FB that has a few citrus growers on it, and they stated it was a sour orange. Feeling convinced that it was that, I moved on. Then, a couple days later I noticed two newer leaves, one with a weird mitten shape and one with trifoliate morphology. It is the only trifoliate leaf, and the wide petioles makes it almost look like it quadfoliate(if that is such a thing) lol. What is this? lol https://www.instagram.com/secretchiefx I'm putting an Instagram link here that shows the images. Hopefully it works.
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Post by Sylvain on Jun 2, 2022 5:46:38 GMT -5
Probably a citrumelo.
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aaron
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Post by aaron on Jun 2, 2022 8:48:55 GMT -5
Thanks for your reply.
Well, either way, I think I am going to grow it out just to see.... It is interesting that most of the leaves are monofoliate in form and it has such a big petiole. When citrus farms are propagating more rootstocks to graft on to, do they plant those rootstocks by seed or do they use cuttings? If the former, is it possible that this is a citrumelo crossed with something else?
Update: (right after I posted the above I think I found something)
I just stumbled upon this N1TriVoss specimen. The leaves of the plant in this link look strikingly similar to mine. Mostly monofoliate, large petioles... Scrolling down the page the leaves of the sample specimens look fairly exact to what I have. What do you think? Is it possible that I received an accidental cross Papeda X Trifoliate cross as a rootstock?
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Post by Sylvain on Jun 2, 2022 10:10:36 GMT -5
No, no chance (or so little) that someone in Texas use N1Tri as root-stock. About root-stocks usually used in Texas you must wait for the help of someone else cause I am in Europe.
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aaron
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Post by aaron on Jun 2, 2022 11:30:35 GMT -5
No, no chance (or so little) that someone in Texas use N1Tri as root-stock. About root-stocks usually used in Texas you must wait for the help of someone else cause I am in Europe. Aw, well thank you again
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jibro
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Czech Rep. | USDA 6b
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Post by jibro on Jun 2, 2022 12:58:12 GMT -5
I think they may used some off-type seedling as rootstock for your plant, citrange or citrumelo cross-pollinated with something with large winged petiole like Ichang Papeda or it may be some newly released rootstock from the US breeding program... www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fpls.2021.741009/fullN1 Tri Voss has kind of similar leaves but as Sylvain said it is very unlikely to be used as a rootstock in Texas...
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Post by pagnr on Jun 2, 2022 16:49:43 GMT -5
I was stumped so I asked on my local(texas) fruit growers forum on FB that has a few citrus growers on it, and they stated it was a sour orange.
Looks a lot like sour orange. Does the foliage have any scent, ( bergamot ?? )
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aaron
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Post by aaron on Jun 2, 2022 16:56:17 GMT -5
Thank you Jibro. I didn't know that the N1 Tri was from europe until Sylvain mentioned that earlier today. Texas has laws that forbid the importation and exportation of citrus specimens except through a controlled release of lab certified budwood programs to keep HLB low and save the commercial citrus growing industry in the southern portion of Texas. It is annoying to people like me in the northern portion of Texas who want to get their hands on exotic and hardier citrus, but I understand why the law is in place. All of that to say, yeah this is certainly not N1-tri, as to get that from Europe so soon would be impossible.
None of the citrumelos/ cintranges listed here have wide petioles, and I used California's citrus variety list as they have an extensive inventory. When it first started to emerge I though it might be an Ichang Lemon. But I was told that itching lemons are not commonly used as rootstock here by commercial citrus tree nurseries, instead they use Carrizo, Poncirus, Flying Dragon, and Sour orange. Maybe it was an accidental cross. Who knows?
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aaron
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Post by aaron on Jun 2, 2022 17:13:26 GMT -5
I was stumped so I asked on my local(texas) fruit growers forum on FB that has a few citrus growers on it, and they stated it was a sour orange. Looks a lot like sour orange. Does the foliage have any scent, ( bergamot ?? ) I added another picture of a unifoliate leaf with a ruler to show size of leaf and petiole. Here: www.instagram.com/secretchiefx/When I crushed the leaf, at first it smelled like a lemon with some spice. Now that I think of it, it smells quite like Earl Gray tea, which has bergamot in it. Its quite lovely and strong.
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Post by pagnr on Jun 3, 2022 1:08:24 GMT -5
Now that I think of it, it smells quite like Earl Gray tea, which has bergamot in it.
Thats a pretty good indicator for Full Sour Orange. Some of the hybrids aren't as scented. It is not unheard of for a Citrus rootstock seedling to throw an occasional trifoliate leaf. Unless it consistently maintains the branch that way, it is just a one off. Probably a set of genes got turned On ( or Off ).
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aaron
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Post by aaron on Jun 3, 2022 7:09:12 GMT -5
Now that I think of it, it smells quite like Earl Gray tea, which has bergamot in it. Thats a pretty good indicator for Full Sour Orange. Some of the hybrids aren't as scented. It is not unheard of for a Citrus rootstock seedling to throw an occasional trifoliate leaf. Unless it consistently maintains the branch that way, it is just a one off. Probably a set of genes got turned On ( or Off ). I mean it is possible, I guess. But, if it is just a plain sour orange, I would be surprised that the cold killed the satsuma, but not the less cold hardy rootstock. Anyway, I guess I'll just watch it for a while and let it grow.
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Post by mikkel on Jun 3, 2022 16:00:00 GMT -5
almost all rootstocks are seedlings, and as jibro has already written it is possible that there are some zygote types among these seedlings. either cross-pollinated or selfed. In any case it would be an off type and different from the other standard types. something like this also happens from time to time with otherwise mainly nucellar rootstock varieties. maybe you just got such a zygote seedling... if there is no other variety to which it fits, this would at least be a theoretical possible explanation..
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Post by millet on Jun 3, 2022 16:13:48 GMT -5
The Unifoliate picture certainly looks like Sour Orange
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aaron
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Post by aaron on Jun 3, 2022 17:02:14 GMT -5
almost all rootstocks are seedlings, and as jibro has already written it is possible that there are some zygote types among these seedlings. either cross-pollinated or selfed. In any case it would be an off type and different from the other standard types. something like this also happens from time to time with otherwise mainly nucellar rootstock varieties. maybe you just got such a zygote seedling... if there is no other variety to which it fits, this would at least be a theoretical possible explanation.. I think all of y'all are correct. I think this is a sour orange, even though I was hoping for a papeda cross. Maybe it is zygotic and has poncirus in there somewhere in its gene pool, perhaps crossed with carrizo which is another common rootstock where live.
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Boris
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Post by Boris on Jun 7, 2022 11:06:14 GMT -5
I thought that arctic frost satsuma is grown on its own roots.
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