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Post by ilya11 on Nov 30, 2020 12:07:31 GMT -5
Yesterday, just before our first night frost of -4C, I harvested several of my hybrids From left to right: Starton15 (5starXMorton), Staruzu25 ((5starXYuzu) and Ichangstar60 ((5starXC.ichangensis)
All these plants are completely hardy in my climate, showing no damage at all after the lowest temperatures of -11C and frozen ground for up to 10 days This is the second hybrid of 5starXMorton cross that is fruiting and it seems that quite strangely it is giving small fruits.
Starton24 (110324): This one was a little better, but has no smell at all, less acid than lemon and without poncirus aftertaste and oils.
Staruzu25 (142025), cross made in 2014 It was flowering at some point in early summer, but I missed it, first 4 fruits still with some green parts, outside smell Yuzu-grapefruit, 10°Brix, moderately juicy, some rather strong bitter after taste, less acid than lemon. Rather promising hybrid combination, I still have several dozens of similiar seedlings. Ichangstar60 This is its second harvest, link fruits are larger Fruity smell, some bitterness, overall good impression, 12°Brix, more juice than one year ago
As you see, different fruits demonstrating further difficulties in breeding for cold hardiness.
When it is achieved further selection is needed to produce something valuable.
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kumin
Full Member
SE Pennsylvania, 45 miles north of Chesapeake Bay, Zone 6b
Posts: 113
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Post by kumin on Nov 30, 2020 12:37:34 GMT -5
Very interesting fruit, are you getting first fruiting from 6 year old trees? Do you anticipate the rind thickness to lessen as the trees mature? Are any these specimens giving fruit of sufficient quality to eat directly?
It's beneficial to have ripe fruits before Winter becomes entrenched.
Your ongoing breeding efforts and progeny evaluation serve as an inspiration and a mentoring to a number of us. I always look forward to your posts. Have you made any online video posts on forums such as YouTube? In which languages do you have sufficient fluency to make video posts?
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Post by ilya11 on Nov 30, 2020 14:39:59 GMT -5
Thank you Kumin, grafting young seedlings on the strong rootstock of 5star citrumelo greatly reduce juvenile period. Staruzu plant from 2014 pollination on this root is now around 4 meter high.
For something approaching "out of hand" use I have 5starXKeraji hybrid that is quite sweet, but it is rather late, maturing close to the Christmas. I am going to launch my blog site to regroup all the information on my hybrids. I am quite fluent in Russian, English and French, but can read and understand most Slavic languages, German and Italian.
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jibro
Full Member
Czech Rep. | USDA 6b
Posts: 162
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Post by jibro on Dec 2, 2020 5:16:55 GMT -5
It's a shame that Citrumelo5* x Morton hybrids produce fruit with so small amount of pulp and juice, I wouldn't expect it, it's kind of strange. Fruit of Ichangstar 60 reminds N1 Tri Voss, similiar color of pulp and lots of big seeds, Ilya can you compare taste of these two and which one is more cold hardy? I tasted N1 Tri Voss last year and it was not bad, kind of simmiliar to grapefruit, but there is still some strange aftertaste.
Average weight of 5 fruits was 60g, but one big fruit had 114g
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Post by lebmung on Dec 2, 2020 18:13:27 GMT -5
Thank you Kumin, grafting young seedlings on the strong rootstock of 5star citrumelo greatly reduce juvenile period. Staruzu plant from 2014 pollination on this root is now around 4 meter high.
For something approaching "out of hand" use I have 5starXKeraji hybrid that is quite sweet, but it is rather late, maturing close to the Christmas. I am going to launch my blog site to regroup all the information on my hybrids. I am quite fluent in Russian, English and French, but can read and understand most Slavic languages, German and Italian.
We should have an 'association of amateur citrus hybridizers'. Nice work Ilya!
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Post by ilya11 on Dec 3, 2020 3:54:38 GMT -5
It's a shame that Citrumelo5* x Morton hybrids produce fruit with so small amount of pulp and juice, I wouldn't expect it, it's kind of strange. Fruit of Ichangstar 60 reminds N1 Tri Voss, similiar color of pulp and lots of big seeds, Ilya can you compare taste of these two and which one is more cold hardy? I tasted N1 Tri Voss last year and it was not bad, kind of simmiliar to grapefruit, but there is still some strange aftertaste.
Average weight of 5 fruits was 60g, but one big fruit had 114g
Fruit shape is very different as well as smell, the juice is less acid in Ichangstar60.
As I said, it was never damaged by the freeze even when a small seedling, while N1tri initially had some damage on a new August growth that I now systematically remove. That is probably a main difference, since Ichangstar has only one wave of growth in spring.
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jibro
Full Member
Czech Rep. | USDA 6b
Posts: 162
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Post by jibro on Dec 3, 2020 8:13:50 GMT -5
Thanks Ilya, do you have also fruit from Ichangstar 61 this year? Are they different from Ichangstar 60? I think my grafted plant of Ichangstar 60 had 2-3 growth period this year, I think it was growing even in September...but it was grafted indoor in March, so it had more time to grow...
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Post by ilya11 on Dec 3, 2020 18:01:04 GMT -5
My plant is not grafted, it is on the own root. 61st was not flowering this year and compared to 60 it has more bitterness.
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jibro
Full Member
Czech Rep. | USDA 6b
Posts: 162
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Post by jibro on Dec 8, 2020 8:34:11 GMT -5
This is the second hybrid of 5starXMorton cross that is fruiting and it seems that quite strangely it is giving small fruits.
Ilya if you have hybrids with Morton with another variety than Citrumelo5* , do they also have small fruits ? Can Morton produce hybrids as seed parent? I am trying figure out what to use for crossing with more edible poncirus, do you agree with this list from top: most cold hardy to less cold hardy? Thanks for help.
-25°C Poncirus
?°C
Ichangstar 60 Ichangquat 6-7-2
Citrumelo 5*
-15°C
Citrange Morton N1 Tri Voss Yuzu n°3
?°C
C. ichangensis Ivia
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Post by ilya11 on Dec 8, 2020 10:19:27 GMT -5
This is the second hybrid of 5starXMorton cross that is fruiting and it seems that quite strangely it is giving small fruits.
Ilya if you have hybrids with Morton with another variety than Citrumelo5* , do they also have small fruits ? Can Morton produce hybrids as seed parent? I am trying figure out what to use for crossing with more edible poncirus, do you agree with this list from top: most cold hardy to less cold hardy? Thanks for help.
-25°C Poncirus
?°C
Ichangstar 60 Ichangquat 6-7-2
Citrumelo 5*
-15°C
Citrange Morton N1 Tri Voss Yuzu n°3
?°C
C. ichangensis Ivia
Morton grafted on poncirus was much damaged (trunk splitting) after -12°C arctic episodes (around 10 days of frozen ground with daytime temperatures close to 0°C). It barely survived in 2012 with night low of -16C. At this moment 5star lost some leaves, but no twig damage and it was flowering next spring. Ichangquat from B.Voss grafted on poncirus had no damage at all.
After 2012 minimal year low was several time -11C , Yuzu had some non-lethal cracks of the trunk, N1tri some twig death, some wood damage on Morton. The rest had no signs of freeze. The last 3 years that IVIA was in ground were exceptionally mild like in 9A climate, so it was difficult to conclude on its hardiness.
Morton without cross-pollination by other varieties is seedless, but when seeds are formed they are all nucellar. It is not an efficient pollen donor either. Interestingly, 9 years ago I pollinated it with Meyer and fruit contained around 20 polyembryonic seeds. I has been grown 10 seedling in the ground, they got severe frost-bites several times with the exception of one. It was flowering for the first time this year and gave typical Morton fruits:
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Post by MarcV on Dec 8, 2020 10:30:32 GMT -5
That looks like a nice fruit. Does it taste ok?
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jibro
Full Member
Czech Rep. | USDA 6b
Posts: 162
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Post by jibro on Dec 8, 2020 12:12:46 GMT -5
Thanks Ilya for very helpful information, it looks like Morton needs to met poncirus again It's interesting that your Morton seedling looks more hardy, looks like it worth to try even nucellar seedlings, they may have some useful improvement.
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Post by ilya11 on Dec 8, 2020 12:35:11 GMT -5
That looks like a nice fruit. Does it taste ok? Morton fruits at the end of vegetative period, normally here in the beginning of December, are sour, roughly like sour oranges, but not bitter. When kept in the basement for one-two month they become quite edible, but personally I do not like the smell of them. It reminds me something close to carrot.
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Post by mikkel on Dec 8, 2020 15:27:14 GMT -5
I do not like the smell of them. It reminds me something close to carrot. Is it the same like green mango? Now I know I can save some space....
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jibro
Full Member
Czech Rep. | USDA 6b
Posts: 162
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Post by jibro on Dec 15, 2020 12:30:16 GMT -5
Hi Ilya, I am thinking about using Ichangquat as the best candidate for crossing with more edible Poncirus, it has the same hardiness as F1 poncirus hybrids but zero poncirus genes, it even looks like both kumquat and Ichangensis can suppress bad Poncirus aftertaste when they are used for crossing with 50% F1 poncirus hybrids. Hybrid Ichangquat x poncirus could be significantly more cold hardy than all other F1 50% poncirus hybrids and with luck, it could have almost no bad poncirus aftertaste. Can Ichangquat produce zygotic seedlings and does have viable pollen? Do you have already some hybrids with Ichangquat? Thanks.
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