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Post by ilya11 on Sept 6, 2020 10:59:00 GMT -5
Mother tree of this seedling is my Flying dragon, I am sure there was no cross pollination with other citrus or trifoliata:
This mother tree gives every year ~ 10-15% more vigorous regular trifoliata seedlings, you are right about spines of this precocious FD, but branches grow more horizontally and are curved, some spines are very slightly curved too, maybe it is somewhere between Flying dragon and poncirus trifoliata. but more importantly Flying Dragon sounds better  it is wery dwarf, leaves are red in autumn and even flowers have some reddish tone so I named it Flying Dragon "Red Dwarf" so ssh
Interestingly, one of the seedlings of PoncirusPlus developed the reddish coloration after a heat wave of +42C in July
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jibro
Full Member
Czech Rep. | USDA 6b
Posts: 121
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Post by jibro on Sept 7, 2020 4:53:57 GMT -5
For me your tree is not a typical Hiryu, that is midget with a spreading habit. Is it grafted on PT?
FD is a very particular variety with a complex mode of inheritance.
I have both in pdf, if you fail to download the first article I can send it by mail.
No fruits this year, probably by my fault, I was trying to produce too many hybrids with it.  Red Dwarf is not typical FD but I think it is closer to FD than trifoliata, I found two curved thorns and some branches, for now, I will stick with the Flying Dragon name. I've made new photos, the original size is in my article and also photos of different siblings of Red Dwarf.
Flowers have functional stigma and anthers has some pollen, it looks like there is the first fruit formed, One white petal also appear, so maybe Red Dwarf will have normal flowers next time, these looks kind of deformed and strange, not much ornamental value I've read these pdf files and there is lots of interesting information, I have some answers: (Seed parent x pollen parent) 1. common Poncirus trifoliata x Flying Dragon - zero chance to find seedlings with curved thorns and stems 2. Flying Dragon x common Poncirus trifoliata - there is no significant increase of seedlings with straight stems and thorns and both curved and straight may be zygotic. It is clear that Red Dwar originated from self - pollination FD as they mentioned and looks like it has typical signs of inbred depression - very slow-growing, it is only 30 cm high and has very weak roots, they still do not grow trough bag bottom, which usually happens with only 3 months old seedlings.
It is not grafted, I grafted some Red Dwarf bud wood into strong poncirus rootstock 2 weeks ago. I have Fast flowering trifoliata and it also has some flowers at the same time as Red Dwarf, it grows also slowly and has poor roots, I think this may be common for all precocious poncirus plants
Red Dwarf was may favorite TV show and it is not the coolest name, that will be Ace Rimmer I may have some cuttings next year if the grafted plant start grow more vigorously...
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Post by ilya11 on Sept 7, 2020 10:23:15 GMT -5
For me your tree is not a typical Hiryu, that is midget with a spreading habit. Is
Red Dwarf is not typical FD but I think it is closer to FD than trifoliata, I found two curved thorns and some branches, for now, I will stick with the Flying Dragon name.
I meant your mother plant
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jibro
Full Member
Czech Rep. | USDA 6b
Posts: 121
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Post by jibro on Sept 7, 2020 11:20:11 GMT -5
Ok The mother tree is from Spain from some professional producer of rootstocks, I forgot the name of the nursery, it had a blue label. I believe they are planting these FD seedlings in heigh density, forcing them to grow up, they may have some more vigorous clone of FD as a source of seeds. I was wondering why my tallest citrus is Flying Dragon but It stopped to grow up and only the lower part of the tree grows more now.
Today I pollinated Red Dwarf with Shivamikan, which is flowering right now, It will most likely drop the fruit and it is too late, but altleast I tried
Fast flowering PT has also already red colored leaves, but it is also flowering and pushing new growth at the same time and the lower part of the plant is still green. I may try pollinated it with Red Dwarf pollen later.
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Post by mikkel on Sept 8, 2020 7:33:42 GMT -5
Interestingly, one of the seedlings of PoncirusPlus developed the reddish coloration after a heat wave of +42C in July This summer I got Poncirus rootstocks from Spain which showed the same red coloration after shipment. I guess it was due to high temperatures inside the parcel like your Poncir+.
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Post by ilya11 on Sept 8, 2020 11:04:21 GMT -5
But it happened only to the one seedling out of dozen.
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Post by mikkel on Sept 8, 2020 13:50:28 GMT -5
did it then go dormant or grew further? Most of mine went dormant after that. |
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Post by ilya11 on Sept 9, 2020 3:16:29 GMT -5
Yes, it has not been growing since July
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jibro
Full Member
Czech Rep. | USDA 6b
Posts: 121
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Post by jibro on Sept 13, 2020 11:52:41 GMT -5
I've made some comparison between two precocious PT, both are very small, slow growing with weak roots, both started growing and flowering in September, but Fast Flowering PT has only incomplete flowers, Red Dwarf still holding 2 fruits. I want to cross them together hopefully next spring, both still have some rounded flower buds unopened.
I ve pollinated Red Dwarf with Shivamikan (C. leiocarpa "Koji") pollen and I tried reciprocal cross too, but I think there is little chance for the first hybrid with Red Dwarf. |
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jibro
Full Member
Czech Rep. | USDA 6b
Posts: 121
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Post by jibro on Oct 14, 2020 4:35:26 GMT -5
Some update after month:
Red Dwarf has still two fruits and is still growing in the greenhouse but temperature is bellow 12°C, so it's the end of grow for this season.
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jimi
New Member
Posts: 15
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Post by jimi on Dec 13, 2020 15:28:34 GMT -5
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jibro
Full Member
Czech Rep. | USDA 6b
Posts: 121
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Post by jibro on Dec 14, 2020 4:03:12 GMT -5
Hi you have a nice blog, your very dwarf FD seedling looks very similar to my Red Dwarf, did you tried to germinate seeds from its fruit?
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jimi
New Member
Posts: 15
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Post by jimi on Dec 14, 2020 16:37:21 GMT -5
Hi you have a nice blog, your very dwarf FD seedling looks very similar to my Red Dwarf, did you tried to germinate seeds from its fruit? Thank you. I had one fruit in 2018 with a few seeds. I didn't find any photo's with seeds. Next fruit I had in 2020 but without seeds. I checked photo history and I know that this FD come from seeds with 2011. As I marked on picture years where you see end of branches. So this Flying Dragon start flowering when was 3 years old.        |
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Post by MarcV on Dec 15, 2020 5:50:39 GMT -5
Hi you have a nice blog, your very dwarf FD seedling looks very similar to my Red Dwarf, did you tried to germinate seeds from its fruit? Thank you. I had one fruit in 2018 with a few seeds. I didn't find any photo's with seeds. Next fruit I had in 2020 but without seeds. I checked photo history and I know that this FD come from seeds with 2011. As I marked on picture years where you see end of branches. So this Flying Dragon start flowering when was 3 years old. That seems like a very early flowering FD. I have a regular PT grown from seed that germinated in 2011 or 2012, can't remember exactly, and I'm still awaiting its first flowers... |
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jibro
Full Member
Czech Rep. | USDA 6b
Posts: 121
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Post by jibro on Dec 15, 2020 11:33:36 GMT -5
I had one fruit in 2018 with a few seeds. I didn't find any photo's with seeds. Next fruit I had in 2020 but without seeds. So this Flying Dragon start flowering when was 3 years old. Interesting, looks like dwarfism and short juvenile period are somehow connected, your plant, unfortunately, does produce fruits only rarely, I was curious if seedlings from these FD dwarfs will also have early flowering and if they will be also very small... My Red Dwarf dropped fruits and leaves when the temperature got below 10°C in the greenhouse, so I will need to wait longer for the first fruit.   MarcV Poncirus usually start flowering after 8-10 years, if your poncirus tree has a diameter of the trunk at least 2 cm, it should start flowering soon...
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it is wery dwarf, leaves are red in autumn and even flowers have some reddish tone so I named it Flying Dragon "Red Dwarf" so ssh 
