zap
Full Member
Posts: 109
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Prague
Sept 28, 2019 16:11:15 GMT -5
Post by zap on Sept 28, 2019 16:11:15 GMT -5
Perhaps cold weather could cause the ring of satsuma cells in the Cambium layer to die off? ... Next perhaps the Trifoliate cells took over. Vienna, Austria, is fairly cold as I understand.
It's interesting to me. I wonder if it is possible to Intentionally create a chimera. I read that most garden Chimeras are from buds that form across Graft unions. Poncirus is a deciduous cold tolerant species, and is seems to be able to infer some of it's tolerance to the Satsuma cells allowing them to survive in cooler weather. So why not some other combinations?
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zap
Full Member
Posts: 109
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Prague
Sept 28, 2019 16:16:58 GMT -5
Post by zap on Sept 28, 2019 16:16:58 GMT -5
Does anyone know if the PT cells are in the outer ring of the Cambium? Or are the PT cells in the inner ring? I have read about chimeras that produce one fruit, but seeds of the other species. As if the Ova belonged to the inner layer, and the skin, and flesh of the fruit belonged to the outer ring of Cells.
Wouldn't Poncirus contribute the most cold tolerance if it was the outer layer?
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Prague
Sept 29, 2019 12:42:15 GMT -5
Post by Sylvain on Sept 29, 2019 12:42:15 GMT -5
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zap
Full Member
Posts: 109
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Prague
Sept 29, 2019 21:02:26 GMT -5
Post by zap on Sept 29, 2019 21:02:26 GMT -5
Or perhaps S|SP|P . Thanks for the address Sylvain. I will read up!
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Prague
Sept 30, 2019 9:48:25 GMT -5
Post by Sylvain on Sept 30, 2019 9:48:25 GMT -5
S|SP|P ?
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zap
Full Member
Posts: 109
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Prague
Oct 31, 2019 2:35:06 GMT -5
Post by zap on Oct 31, 2019 2:35:06 GMT -5
Wow Sylvain; (interesting read) My knowledge of Cambium layers was based on grafting manuals from the 1900's. Outdated thinking. (But the grafts still work!)
I would suspect you are correct with the SSP layers at the growing tip. After all the woody structure seems to take after Poncirus Trifoliata var: Flying Dragon. Prague has the twisted flying dragon form. Now if someone could replicate the chimera with Citrange & XieShan Satsuma to get a more upright form...
Be happy.
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Prague
Oct 31, 2019 7:21:16 GMT -5
Post by Sylvain on Oct 31, 2019 7:21:16 GMT -5
> I would suspect you are correct... Thank you.
> After all the woody structure seems to take after Poncirus Trifoliata var: Flying Dragon. Prague has the twisted flying dragon form. No. As we have PT branches, we know it is not FD. And, by the size of the flowers we know it is of the kind of "large flowers" PT.
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Prague
Jan 30, 2020 8:26:26 GMT -5
Post by Sylvain on Jan 30, 2020 8:26:26 GMT -5
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Prague
Jan 30, 2020 9:48:57 GMT -5
Post by ilya11 on Jan 30, 2020 9:48:57 GMT -5
Sylvain,
Results with Flow cytometry sorting are basically the same as those done in Brno University for Prague.
They apparently have not been able to distinguish the genome nuclear sizes between orange and satsuma. The data just show that chimera is diploid. But SSR molecular marker analysis ( that was not done for Prague) hints for the presence of both types of cells in chimeric tissues.
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Prague
May 12, 2020 12:14:49 GMT -5
Post by Sylvain on May 12, 2020 12:14:49 GMT -5
I also have pure PT branches, one or two by tree. They are very easy to find when the Poncirus bloom and grow because at that time the Prague is naked:
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Post by Stoyan on Sept 25, 2020 9:22:56 GMT -5
Concerning regular crops of Prague - After formatting enough in number fruitlets (0,5 to 1 cm) I remove constantly every new flower (in May, June) Last year in pot there were 15 fruits: Now after I transplanted the plant in the ground in April - it is stressed, it has 7 fruits. The base is Swingle citrumelo.
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Prague
Oct 8, 2020 8:24:25 GMT -5
Post by Sylvain on Oct 8, 2020 8:24:25 GMT -5
Zap, what you say has no understandable meaning because meristem has 3 layers, not 2. We already found the four possibilities: MMM (mandarin), MMP (the prague), MPP (poncirus with glossy fruits) and PPP (poncirus). The other possibilities are very unlikely to be seen one day because they would involve cells skipping a layer.
M is for mandarine. I don't use satsuma because it has to be proved. P is for Poncirus. The first layer is on the left.
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Prague
Dec 4, 2021 5:36:35 GMT -5
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Post by kevin54500 on Dec 4, 2021 5:36:35 GMT -5
I planted out my Prague chimera this year. I grafted it high on Poncirus. No flowers on this one yet.
Sylvain says it is coldhardy to at least -15C which would be plenty enough for my place. We usually get -10/-12C at most.
Much more decisive for its survival here will be its ability to tolerate prolonged freezes with days or even weeks below 0C.
My potted one has flowered for several years but never set fruit until this year. I am very curious to taste the fruit.
It really is not a handsome plant but if it does produce good fruit, I really don't care . Only drawback seems to be erratic yield – Sylvain seems to be the only one with regular crops.
Hi Florian, very pretty, citsuma with this big rootstock, it's interesting! for citsuma from Prague the fruits will be later with bad years like this year at home .. I ordered fruit from Vessieres which my was delivered about 15 days ago and their citsuma fruit was green turning very slightly to l 'orange, during its two weeks it is at 3/4 orange I would say still a little green ... with us the walls have big advantages ... your superb rootstock will also help with the temperatures given that the cold in general stagnates at its lowest ...
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Prague
Dec 4, 2021 7:54:46 GMT -5
Post by Sylvain on Dec 4, 2021 7:54:46 GMT -5
Do you mean Vessieres is selling fruits of Prague?
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Prague
Dec 4, 2021 8:29:17 GMT -5
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Post by kevin54500 on Dec 4, 2021 8:29:17 GMT -5
Do you mean Vessieres is selling fruits of Prague? I made him an order of fruit (he sends the available fruit every week) and since I would like to buy him a fruit tree (citsuma from Prague) I asked if it was possible to send me a fruit to taste it sent it to me it's very kind of him!
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